Facing Adversity Through the Lens of the Army with Jay - Episode 27

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All right everybody welcome back to another episode of mind over matter. This is episode 27. We brought on Jason

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I thoroughly enjoyed my conversation with Jason. He's been popping in the discord here and there

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Ever since we recorded and his conversations contribute a lot to

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How I run my life now. It's it's pretty great got a new episode or a new person within our community

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So I'm very excited about that. Kev. You want to go into a little bit why we got him on?

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Yeah, so Jason was my first boss when I got to a an operational army unit, so

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When he first met me I was 19 20 years old just kind of figuring out life, but

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He's was a super good boss to me and we kind of reconnected recently

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so we wanted to get him on the show and talk about like some leadership stuff because

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He had a soldier that was a big problem when he first got promoted and Trevor was that problem when I first got promoted

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They ended up a lot differently, but there was a lot of parallels we wanted to kind of get into though, so

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Jason thanks again for coming on and let's get into it. Enjoy the show

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All right, I guess we're live then so welcome to the mind over matter podcast today

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We have a very special guest. He's actually my first boss in the army in an operational unit

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It's Jason sitting right over here

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So Jason if you want to just give a quick intro about your time in the army and then go into kind of how you met me

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We'll kick this off

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Yeah, so I've been in the army 13 years. I've spent most of my career either working in or with

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special operations I

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Went to basic training in for Jackson

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I shared that wonderful experience

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Went to a it here in Virginia for Eustace, which is now joint based Langley Eustace

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and

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Then went to straight from a it to the 160th

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Greenville tune so and that's

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spent what about five

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Years there and then you came I think because I was there for a couple years before I left

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I want to say yeah, you had just got promoted to E5 like right before I got there, right?

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Yeah, yeah, cuz cuz that's

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There was one soldier will name cuz he's not in the army no more we could drop his name

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So would deal about the other there was this soldier. It was basically me a dude named Kyle and a dude named Matthew, right and

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Kyle was kind of a I say kind of a turd he was a turd man

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And you guys were my first three soldiers that I got like brand new soldiers

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I got to the shop when I first made you five

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Yeah, Matthew wasn't the greatest soldier either

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No at the time bro Matt wasn't even that bad like Matt wasn't bad until after really his like first appointment

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Then he got kind of late like but he actually taught me a lot of shit like I didn't learn anything

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Or know anything before I got there, right?

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But you know Matt taught me a lot of shit, but Kyle dude. He was like

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He was a problem child man

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So my

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So he was my first article 15 my first ever I would say

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Problem child that I ever had to deal with in the army

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he was that very first NCO experience that I ever got and

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And it was it was hard. It was hard to navigate that for sure. We're were you like

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How much support did you have from the bosses at the shop with that?

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Uh, I had a lot of support from John which was like, you know the step above what I was dealing with

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As far as like anything above that I mean, you know the commander in the first start at that time

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I had their ear and they they respected me a lot. So anything that I

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Uh, you know recommended to them as one of the NCOs they kind of trusted me on it

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So I had a lot of support from them

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But it was weird for me because that was the first ever

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Incident that I had ever dealt with and I had an article 15 when I first arrived there in the shop. So

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I kind of had a weird

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Way of navigating it is like I didn't want to punish him too drastically for it, but I also

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Wanted him to know that hey, this is going to be wrong and we're not going to talk to you. You know what I'm saying

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Are you comfortable sharing what your article 15 was for?

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Yeah, it was lying to a non-commissioned officer

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I never heard that before come on. Yeah, I could count. I couldn't count how many times I lied to Kevin

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Shit

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What what did you lie about though? Like so

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Yeah, so I had gone to a fair like a fair in Kentucky the night prior with some friends and

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I showed up late and it wasn't the first time I was late. Let's be honest, you know, I was

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It was not great those first couple years in the army. I had my growing pains

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uh

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But I was late coming into work the next day and I I mean like

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Almost as bad as Kyle, but not quite as bad sort of deal

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Uh, so I show up and I still had the fairer stamp on my hand

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and

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the

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NCIC at the shop at the time who I'll

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Leave me leave nameless. Uh, he was kind of a hard ass

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and

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He thought I was out drinking at a club and I was underage at the time

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so

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I told him no, I wasn't but I wouldn't tell him what I what I was doing like, you know, I've always

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been of the opinion you leave out details for a reason, you know, and uh

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So he just he thought I was lying about drinking that night. That's what he that's what he charged me for so

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charged and

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And so what then you just took it because you didn't want to tell him like what you were actually doing

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Yeah, yeah, pretty much. I so I've always been I've always been like

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My life is my life. I've separated the army professional and personal and I had to do that

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In the beginning because of a lot of rules that were established then and you know my

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Lifestyle, I guess we'll say

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So, you know in the beginning like I had to keep all that stuff real hush hush and low key and it was a weird way to

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navigate it

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So I've always kind of kept my life that way like

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I don't share a lot of details, you know, people don't necessarily get to know me very well

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But that's just who I am so

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At that point I felt like it was probably just best to leave that detail out so

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Always your punishment. Do you remember?

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Uh, yeah, so you remember the gravel area out in front of the

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Out in front of the hangar. Yeah

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Where the parking lot side

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Yeah, so it had the rocks and the tree

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Had the flags outside, right? So I was well I painted all that I painted all the walls all the wood around it

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I had to they literally dropped a pile of rocks out

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Because so Abbey hadn't been built yet, but the field was cleared over there

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And so they dumped the pile of rocks over there and I literally had to take a wheelbarrow with a shovel fill it up

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Drag it over level it out. I made that little rock garden up in front of the hangar

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That's about a hundred yards to give you a picture, you know one way about how far that is I reckon

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Yeah, I mean it wasn't tough, but it definitely

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It was

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I had gotten direction right

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At first they were kind of pushing me hard and they were like hey, we're gonna have an enceo watch you like

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It's gonna be these hours and this many days and then we had a change at first sergeants

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And first Sergeant Talesco came in at that point and he was walking in the hangar one day and was like, what are you doing?

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And I was like, oh, I'm on extra duty first sergeant, you know

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And he's like how long and you know, I started explaining it to him explaining it to him and he's like

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Oh, we're gonna change that so he literally went down in the shop and told my nco's like no nco's gonna waste their time watching a music

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Grown-ass adult if he's not gonna do it, right?

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We'll just keep him on it and we're gonna give him one project and however long it takes him

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That's how long this punishment is gonna last

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So

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That's honestly wasn't that rough. Yeah, it was a lot better

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Yeah, yeah, because the only thing I didn't expect was that it was gonna last for a long time

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Yeah, because the only article 15s I ever had to like babysit so to speak

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It was like four dudes got it all at one time

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Yeah, so they couldn't like be like, oh, yeah, y'all are good to just go on about it, you know

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Do you remember one go ahead the only other one I had to do was we had one

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It was a DUI, I believe and then some suicidal ideations came about so I had to sit there and watch him but

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Yeah, our DUI we're not gonna name drop him but my boss I guess jokingly told me, you know, we in the shop

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We had those yellow lines like on the where the walk pass were

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Yep, he was overseas and he texted me have him paint those yellow again

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And this dude did such a phenomenal you actually helped him didn't you Trevor? Oh, yeah, bro

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It was like it was like 3 p.m. On a Friday is when he like Kevin got the text to start doing this shit

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And then he came back fucking

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Started like taping up the lines. I was like and I had no idea. I just got done working cleaning everything

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What the fuck's going on right now and the dude got on his knees and started painting the fucking lines

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And I'm like, dude, I understand what this guy did was wrong. He's literally on his knees right now

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It's Friday. He's painting these fucking lines yellow again. Like we already did this shit

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So I just got on my knees and we got that shit dude. We got that shit done in like an hour maybe 30 minutes

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We got this you done like that and then right after he gets home from deployment. Kev. I'll let you finish the story

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Yeah, he gets home from deployment, right?

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And they they did a phenomenal job on this floor like that floor has it's very walked on

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You know like we drive forklifts in there. That shit was chewed up, right? But it looked brand new. Yeah

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Yeah, oh, yeah, well used right and the boss gets home and he looks at it. He's like, yeah, this looked great

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What happened? I was like, what the fuck do you mean? What happened? You told me to have him paint this shit

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He's like you actually did I was kidding. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about, bro?

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But we were we were taking so many L's dude like that I do got hacked and all his money got taken

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Fucking Trevor's being him, you know running into trash cans getting speeding tickets

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It's like we're I've been at and see you at that point for like 30 minutes. Fairly. Yeah

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And you're just thrown into it. That's that's the part about like

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So I've worked with a lot of different, uh, you know units in the army, right? And I've seen infantry. I've seen aviation. I've seen engineers like

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I've worked with all of them and I will say

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Some of the worst NCOs some of the worst leaders have seen have been aviation NCOs

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And it's it's because of like the way you're brought up. I mean think about the situation you're in

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Like the way you're brought up. I mean think about the situation you were thrown into right how how

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How well had we

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like fostered environments for you to learn how to do that, right?

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Barely because it was all about job proficiency not like

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Exactly and you're thrown into it. You're thrown into it

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What is it? BLC

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BLC. Yeah, is that yeah, that's good. And is that a is that a leadership course though?

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I mean in all reality because most most infantry units they don't even that's not really even

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Considered a leadership course in their eyes like they view a ranger school or sapper school as a leadership course

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I only learned about NCO er's and dlc. That's and you get one little fact

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Look, you cannot use an umbrella unless you're in a s you use with a trench coat

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I didn't even know that I see you learn something new every day. Yeah

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Yeah, I'll tell that story. Yeah, it was like pissing rain after ptd

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And I kept my clothes in my car

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So I would just bring my like my clothes into the barracks to shower and bring them back, right?

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And I'm like I get my clothes. I got my umbrella. I hear excuse me sore

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I'm like, oh Jesus Christ and I look up and I I'm pretty sure it's the branch cheese like some e8

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And he's like, what's the regulation on wearing an umbrella? I'm like, what I'm like, I have no idea sergeant

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But I said I I'm guessing I'm wrong seeing as you're yelling at me

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He's like find out and get back to me

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Oh my god, but I guess I got off pretty alive with that

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Yeah, I didn't learn shit from being on the line

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What really oh, yeah, I was during covid

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No, what were you gonna say? We've had a lot of uh, did he actually say wearing what is what is the regulation for wearing an umbrella?

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That is the exact nomenclature he used that's wearing an umbrella. I'm holding it. What are you talking about?

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Like we're using using an umbrella like this was like a black and white umbrella

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It was like black and white every other scene. It wasn't like I had one that had like a fucking the f word on for some shit

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You know, yeah, wasn't like I'll say this like

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None of my views are the viewpoints of the army, but they have some really dumb rules

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Like about a lot of different things

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Yeah, you gotta have that trench coat on

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Yeah, and you can't put your hands in your pockets for longer than two seconds unless you're retrieving something

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It's like my hands are cold. Why wouldn't I put them in my pockets?

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Shout out to the 160th though. Why'd y'all give me one thing right?

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Exactly

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No, yeah, bringing it back though. Yeah, no, that was the big thing though is it seemed we were so fixated on job performance, right?

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And it's like well, okay. I can do my job just fine

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but

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it's the nco shit like

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I honestly I felt underprepared because the two e6's that could have helped me

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We're both overseas at the same time

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And the only other guy there was the platoon sergeant. So he was a seven

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We won't name him here, but we knew him talking about an notorious kind of hard ass, you know

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And he would just it felt like he expected me to have been an nco for like five or six years at that point

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Yeah, and we put that onus on the brand new nco like

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In that in that situation, you know me being me now, right?

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Because I made a lot of mistakes, but I would have been that senior nco that would have come down to you and been like

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Hey, have you ever done this before like even if I'd never done it, right?

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Even if I'd never charge anybody with uc engineer had an article 15 situation

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Like, okay, you and I we're gonna meet in the office and we're gonna figure this out

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together because at that point

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I'm teaching you

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And we're both learning together

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At the fucked up part was to is that I think of all the platoon sergeants there every other one would have done that

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Yeah

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It like I know john would have done that frank absolutely would have done he mean he did do that

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um

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But it was just this yeah, it's just this one guy man. It was like I was

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It felt like he was setting me up to fail, you know

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And now that I uh think about it all like I never really was taught how to lead

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I never made it to a leadership role, but I was like I went through basic or yeah

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BLC and then I would have without coven I would have ended up moving up

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But coven ended up doing all that bullshit

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But the only real way I learned how to lead was just observing no one ever like taught me how to do anything

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I had to watch

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Leaders suck or leaders too good, you know, I had to see what what I liked in order to know

214
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how to lead or

215
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even talk to a

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kid

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Yeah, Kevin I were talking yesterday, you know, like

218
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some of the

219
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Most influential leadership I've had has been bad leadership

220
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Because you learn you learn what you don't want to see in yourself and you you always

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Change yourself to not be like that person. It's it's almost like a

222
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You know, you're getting nipped at both ends from it, you know, because you don't want to be like that

223
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so you push yourself even harder and you know, we

224
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:22,440
We put a lot of onus back on that nco to like kind of either make it or break it when in all reality

225
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You know my perspective on it having been in the army for 13 years is

226
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,720
The army you just you're not going to wake up one day and be a leader

227
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:37,880
And I don't think everybody can inherently be a leader. I think that there's leaders and there's managers

228
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And the army does a real bad

229
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Job of kind of breaking that up and knowing that not everybody can be a good leader, you know

230
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,200
Not everybody manages people well

231
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How do we how do we fit that in? Well, we put them into different positions where they can manage aircraft or manage

232
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property or

233
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Something other than people and they usually do really well with that

234
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You know, you don't put you take that human aspect of it. They can actually manage and they can lead themselves

235
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But as soon as you give them somebody to like basically take care of

236
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,960
Um, it kind of goes a little wonky for

237
00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,360
Yeah, I mean, there are a lot like I can think of a few guys off the top of my head

238
00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:25,160
Where they weren't great on engines, you know, they really couldn't manage the shop that well

239
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,640
But they were great at admin stuff

240
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Like asked them to put together like a packet on anything they could just nail it out the park counselling's or just bulletproof, right?

241
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,520
And like they were struggling in the shop

242
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,840
But then they were able to find jobs where they could might like mostly do admin shit somewhere else

243
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,320
And they both excelled at it, you know

244
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,800
but I mean

245
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,080
Good we had we had one, you know, one of my good friends

246
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,120
Who will remain nameless and edcio there in the shop?

247
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,840
And I'm sure you guys can you know, once I tell the story like

248
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,520
Yeah, he was he was just not great at leading people

249
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:04,760
He he couldn't manage his own time really well enough to be able to manage other people

250
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And so

251
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It finally got to the point where like hey, we're gonna put you in ops

252
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,880
That was probably the best thing they could have done for his career because he went there and

253
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:22,200
Flourished like he flourished for whatever reason that was his job and he liked he liked doing it

254
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,200
He liked doing it and he was good at it

255
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,080
It's funny how much I learned from him

256
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,520
It's like I wouldn't even know if I call it learning. I just pretty much did the opposite whatever he would do. Yeah

257
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:39,880
I'll tell you though like one thing I was grossly unprepared for when I did get promoted. Well, I was like

258
00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:42,760
I'm thinking okay. I'm an nco now like

259
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:48,200
Big sorry, you know, like that was the main goal people like I got some right to me. Yeah some authority, bro

260
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,920
Like it feels cool, bro. I'm not gonna lie. It's it's a good feeling because you earn it

261
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:58,440
So but I was so unprepared though. It's just getting shut on from both ends

262
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:04,040
Like when you're a e4 you got to worry about yourself. That's pretty much it right

263
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:10,680
But when you're a e5 it's like you're getting an earful from the boss because

264
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:19,000
Trevor's boots are dirty or some stupid shit, right? Yep, or you know, med pros are red. Whatever, you know, it's always nonsense, right?

265
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,360
And then the e4s and below are all bitching about

266
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,000
Having to do all that shit or

267
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:30,040
I mean, I was e4 once I'd bitch too, you know, it'd be literally anything at all. You bitch about it

268
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,520
You know, but I was just like man, this is this is tough, bro

269
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:41,800
And that's that's one of the things that like I don't think senior leaders and press on their younger guys is

270
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,000
Hey, I hate this just as much as you do

271
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:51,800
Like who likes up who likes going in and doing anything in bed pros nobody like

272
00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:58,600
But you got to get it done. Why because the army says so like just tell you guys that and I guarantee you're gonna have

273
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:03,720
Okay, you're right, you know, like, yeah, they're gonna have an aha moment like I'm gonna be like

274
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:08,040
All right, he hates doing this just as much as I do. Yeah, or even like what's just

275
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,360
Let's just get it done. Yeah, like Kevin comes up to me and is like dude

276
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:18,200
Like I could visibly see Kevin's upset or like just fucking tired from a week's worth of bullshit

277
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:23,320
And like am instant comes in says one more thing to him and he's like, you know what that's it

278
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,200
And I'm it clicks in my head. I'm like, all right

279
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,160
Maybe I should help Kevin out and just fucking do what I'm told

280
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,000
It was funny, bro one time, bro. I was just having a bad day

281
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,000
And we had two soldiers in vlc, right?

282
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:41,400
One of them it was like the day before they're supposed to graduate one calls me up and he's all like a bro

283
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:47,400
They're kicking me out. They said I fucking failed tape in the beginning. I wasn't supposed to pass or whatever. So they're kicking me out

284
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:53,320
And I'm like, I'm like, I should just go up to the top of the medicine and just no side office because I know

285
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:58,360
Which I know you guys probably had a lot have a lot of veteran people on here for people that don't know

286
00:20:58,360 --> 00:21:05,000
That's a big deal like height and weight in the army for many many years has been a huge sticking point. So

287
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,800
Yeah, yeah, like I when I went to vlc. Yeah, I was two pounds over and they take me man

288
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,800
Like they're sticklers about it, you know

289
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:17,720
But it was like he was almost done. He's like, yeah, they're kicking me out because they said I shouldn't have been here in the first place

290
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:23,640
And I'm like, oh my god, I'm sure I jump off like mezzanine like amon's is gonna kill me and then he said he was joking

291
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,640
I'm like, bro this fucking clown

292
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,680
I was so fucking pissed off at this guy

293
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,480
immediate blood pressure spike. Yeah

294
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,600
another feeling

295
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,080
Yeah, no, it was I was just kind of tough. It was like

296
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:45,160
That's why I like the like frank, you know, I think that was like an S tier platoon sergeant like

297
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,800
Him and john, I think they both

298
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,800
excelled in different ways, but

299
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:55,800
Frank I think really did a good job like instilling kind of like the greater picture and like the why and

300
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:04,920
Well and while we're on the topic of frank, I just went through slc with him, you know, he's one of those leaders that

301
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,120
Yeah, he's one of those leaders that is

302
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,800
Great at knowing his own deficiencies

303
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,480
Yeah, you know very humble like

304
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:20,600
He knows that he's not great at everything and he knows that he's gonna he's gonna fall short

305
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:26,920
Right and a lot of leaders don't go into leading in in that sort of frame of thought

306
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:28,920
You know, you're not gonna win every single thing

307
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,440
You're you're gonna have failures and you learn from those failures

308
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,240
But as a leader you have to you have to walk in

309
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,000
With that inherent like okay some like

310
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:44,120
You never plan for contingencies like something's gonna happen sort of scenario, you know what I mean

311
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:46,120
You know what I mean and you're gonna fall short

312
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,600
And frank's really good at being like hey

313
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:55,400
I know where I sit on this and he gathers resources. He gets he gets people to come in and help him, you know

314
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,440
He was open about it too. That's what I really liked

315
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,560
Like I know you're supposed to be like a shield for us, you know

316
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,240
But like eventually we're probably gonna have to deal with the same shit if we stay here long enough

317
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,440
So like it'd be nice to know what to expect

318
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:15,640
Well and whether and whether we openly express it or not this is what kind of irritates me about the army a little bit too

319
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,640
in a way is

320
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:23,160
You know senior leaders aren't allowed to have that personable moment with their soldiers, you know

321
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,160
You can't you can't complain about stuff when in all reality like

322
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:33,320
Those soldiers are they're seeing it. They're like kids. They're seeing that stuff that you're going through

323
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,160
You know, you just said it Trevor like you could look at Kevin and and totally

324
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:42,520
Pick up on when he was upset. You do that. You knew what was triggering him. You knew what was making him uncomfortable

325
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:50,760
So it's they're gonna see it and and us not having the ability to like express that and and have that human personal relationship is

326
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,280
It's drastic. I still do it and I get yelled at all the time

327
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:59,240
It's that scene from save and private Ryan when they're walking in the field and they finally asked Tom Hanks

328
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:04,360
What he thinks about the leader and all everything that's going on and he's like, I will not bitch down

329
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:06,360
I will not bitch down

330
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:12,440
But that I was just thinking that was my next question. I was gonna ask you and especially because um

331
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,560
So a lot of people don't know what Kevin is to me

332
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,400
Jason is the Kevin. So first leader first first

333
00:24:20,360 --> 00:24:24,040
Really glimpse of what he should be I guess and so when I was

334
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,440
Going through a tough time

335
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:27,880
And Kevin was my leader

336
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:33,640
It took that personable moment to save my life almost like Kevin had to come to me and say look

337
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,600
Like let's let's change something about you or let's you know Kevin came to me

338
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:44,120
And we started talking person on a personal level about how to fix my life not there's no army involved

339
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,480
Nothing like that. When do you think that?

340
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:49,400
moment

341
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,400
Should happen like is it a

342
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:56,440
Threat of the soldier's life. Like when do you think it's almost okay to just say look?

343
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,440
We're all human

344
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:04,200
No, I think that should happen in the very beginning like you know, obviously there's that

345
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:12,360
That respect that you initially give to your seniors, right? You have to it's just that rank you respect the rank initially

346
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:17,240
But you have to have that personal moment like we're human beings at the end of the day and I've

347
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:23,080
I've kind of like grown accustomed to just make people adapt like this is like

348
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,840
You should get to know each other. You should have that personal moment

349
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,200
You should know because one as a leader you're getting to know your soldier, right?

350
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,080
So you're gonna kind of know like I'm and he seems a little off today

351
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:39,000
Like or not even that like job performance wise like how how can I help him?

352
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,520
Be more productive. How can I be a little better leader for him?

353
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:48,120
And if you don't have those personal moments, it's gonna be it's like you're both battling each other at that point

354
00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:56,120
Yeah, take some like self reflection. I think just just even to start out be like, okay, where am I like lacking in as a leader?

355
00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:57,080
Yeah

356
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:02,360
and I look back on moments that I've had over the last 13 years and even before that because I was

357
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:09,560
in the scouts and an Eagle Scout and I had a lot of those situations before I even joined the army

358
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:11,160
but

359
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,160
you kind of

360
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,240
you're gonna fall you're gonna fail and

361
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,240
I've had some of the best

362
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:22,280
learning moments like teaching points for myself personally in the failures that I've had

363
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:29,240
You know, I failure leadership. Yeah. Yeah leadership failure. You know like

364
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,240
so the situation with Kevin, you know that uh

365
00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:37,240
I count that as a failure, right because

366
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:38,680
I think

367
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,680
I think Kevin could have been

368
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:42,680
a prosperous

369
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,680
soldier in the army

370
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:49,800
like I think he could have been a good soldier and I think he could have

371
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:56,440
Done, you know 20 years and had a career out of the army. I think he was more than capable of doing that

372
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,320
I just didn't know how as a leader

373
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,080
to get that

374
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,280
Personable moment to him, right? I think I kind of did it with you

375
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,160
I think I kind of did it with like Ortony

376
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,920
And the other guys that were in the shop at that point

377
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,840
But for him, I just had a really hard time getting

378
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,120
Like to his level to have that personal moment

379
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:24,520
I would try like I would try to you know have cordial conversations with him even when he was in trouble and

380
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,120
We're not talking like little stuff like

381
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:33,560
You know being late for the third time that week sort of deal, you know, and so

382
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,040
It wasn't I wasn't late

383
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,280
No, I'm not saying you I'm saying I'm saying oh like yeah

384
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:46,360
I I could never have that like I could never breach bridge that gap with him

385
00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:51,880
like I couldn't I couldn't breach the door with him on figuring out how to have that personal moment because it

386
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,040
I think

387
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:59,880
He was a little immature at the time and he couldn't separate that stuff like to him. This was all

388
00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:03,720
One thing and whereas me like personal professional has been

389
00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:06,040
Sort of split two roads

390
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,080
Yeah, so that's kind of what it was for me as I was combined

391
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,880
Yeah, I didn't I was immature at the same same time and I combined my whole life together

392
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:19,240
And that's that personal moment is when I realized look this the shit isn't all the same

393
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:25,160
You know like Kevin finally I got invited over to Kevin's house. We hung out for a little I understood life a little more

394
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:31,880
And now I realize look the shit isn't all that serious. I'm not here all day. This isn't my life right now

395
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,320
You know, it just took one of those moments to really realize it

396
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,400
But like you said, I was I was just as immature

397
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,480
They there's it was almost impossible for anyone to get something through my head just because

398
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:48,040
I was joking around or just acting acting up doing something stupid. So you had a mouth on you too

399
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,680
Yeah, bro. It was it was impossible for anyone to get something into my head. So finally just

400
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,640
Yeah, I don't I don't know

401
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,720
So I'll ask because I'm always learning right what what was it that

402
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:05,640
That you guys finally bridged that gap with because it seems like there was a good portion of time that

403
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:11,560
You guys didn't really get along too well. Yeah, and if you've talked about this like just give me the synopsis

404
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,920
So you you want you want to do whatever you want me to do it? Go ahead. I want you to see yeah, let it yeah

405
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:18,760
Okay, so

406
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,200
Trevor

407
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,200
I don't know if you knew this but like

408
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,200
I was the one who found out his wife was cheating on him when he used to Floyd

409
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,000
Like he hit me up one Sunday morning at like six o'clock

410
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,360
It's like go make sure there's no cars in the driveway, right? So I go over there with my wife

411
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,560
Of course, there's a car in the driveway. I take a picture, you know

412
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,840
And I thought he was lying like he called me said there's a car in the driveway

413
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:43,960
And I thought Kevin the dude that's been there with me since I got into the army was lying straight to my face

414
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,440
So just I'm like this is like a ridiculous thing to lie about. Yeah

415
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,440
Well, like I'm no shit. Did we stop me and my wife stopped in the middle of the road and took a picture of this car

416
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,440
and I sent it to him and

417
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:59,480
Um, like there was no lights on in the house, you know, like they were obviously sleeping on Sunday like 6 30 in the morning, you know

418
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,360
And like I go and I park my car in this school next to the house

419
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:10,920
And then I go like drive away like five minutes when I drive past his place and the car is gone, you know, dude fucking booked it

420
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,200
And uh, Trevor's like talking to his wife on the phone. He's calling me, right?

421
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,320
And I don't know. It was just fucking that was probably one of the hardest moments I had in the army

422
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,120
Just because I felt so helpless about the whole thing

423
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:30,280
And I'm like the bearer of bad news. I can't do shit to help this guy. You know, I sound like I can go fucking beat her ass, you know

424
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,120
Yeah, no, they ended up

425
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:34,920
Yeah, go ahead

426
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:36,920
So really it was an all reality

427
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:42,680
You know, if we break it down to what it actually was it was the stressful environment that brought you all together, you know, oh, yeah

428
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,200
That's it

429
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,880
That was the first time. Yeah, I think we really like connected, you know

430
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:52,920
Because I don't think you called me for any other reason than you knew I was up, right?

431
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,640
Yeah, no, I um

432
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,920
I knew like Kevin was like an acquaintance not necessarily a friend yet. Like he was just my leader

433
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,400
I knew I could talk to him just about anything

434
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,320
But only like and I wouldn't bother him unless I had to I knew Kevin

435
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,400
I respected his personal time like if he was home. I didn't text them all that shit

436
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,320
But yeah, it was a Sunday and this is when Kevin was like

437
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,920
More than that and the place he was running at the greenway was right right down my house

438
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,920
Right down the road. So I like I thought of a couple things

439
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,480
But I knew my my other friends are gonna be asleep. I wasn't near my family

440
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,960
Like I literally had no one else to call if I didn't call Kevin. I would have never found this shit out

441
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:34,840
So I had I had to call

442
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,360
Yeah, did did she like spend a lot of money on like

443
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,840
I think I was like

444
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:46,840
Yeah, did she like spend a lot of money on like yeah, yeah, so the night yeah the night before it was I woke up and it was like a

445
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,240
$250 tab at a

446
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,400
Star spangled at a brewery. I was like this is what the fuck?

447
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:58,840
So, yeah, there's something going on there. Yeah, I'm not I'm not gonna say that I was excited obviously

448
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,880
But like I we all kind of figured

449
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:07,160
Just by like her demeanor, you know what she would wear like the first time I went over to y'all's house

450
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,200
It was like five or six of us there and she had these shorts on dude

451
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,800
They were like couldn't have been longer than this this pouch packet right here like super short

452
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:18,360
You know like my wife when we left she's like we gotta block her on everything, you know, like just bad news

453
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,920
You know something like all right, let's get this bitch, right? So

454
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,200
Yeah, no, I

455
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:28,760
I found her, you know, and then you were big talking to Angulo about that whole thing, right?

456
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:33,080
Yeah, so I was lucky enough to be overseas with uh an older duties

457
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,480
Shoot, I don't even know what his age was but he was around like 35 older e6

458
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,120
and he um

459
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,120
He was like my dad over there

460
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,680
So I was able to open up about everything with him and because I I was trying to do it with my mother

461
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,680
But that wasn't really working because it was over the phone trying to do with my family. I had no one to connect to

462
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,800
So finally I found someone to connect to over there and then

463
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,680
Yeah, really when I got home. It was just it was just a mess. That was my second deployment

464
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,400
So I already didn't deal with deployment issues from my first deployment

465
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:08,120
So I was already just messed up in the head at 19 20 years old coming home from a deployment

466
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,680
And then yeah, I was then um

467
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:16,280
Couple short months later. My plan was to do 20 in the army. So a couple short months later. I found out I had scoliosis

468
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:23,400
So so that I'm getting med boarded out and then I just like I was saying I could see it in Kevin Kevin just saw like

469
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:29,960
I was just beat beat the hell up. Yeah, he this dude was beat the hell up because like he knew he was getting med boarded

470
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,920
But there was even months after this whole thing

471
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,680
We're like, we didn't know what was happening with him like I would hit up Frank like every day like

472
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,800
Do we have anything on this guy? But you just told me no so Trevor was just floating pretty much for a while

473
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,800
And he had this cars. I think it was a Volkswagen, right?

474
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,960
Yeah, and it had issues with the clutch or the transmission

475
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:56,360
Or some shit, right? So I follow him down to this repair shop and I'm about to give him a ride back

476
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,000
And I'm like Trevor you know, I got this

477
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:06,680
We'll call it a cigarette. I said I got I got this cigarette. No, I didn't say I said I got something that might help you bro

478
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,000
And yeah, you know what you what you yeah, what you've said verbatim was

479
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,880
Now Trevor I got something for you. I gotta suggest if you don't like it

480
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,560
I'm gonna throw you a rock if you don't like it. Just toss it right on back

481
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,680
Forget I said anything. Yeah. Yeah, I was like, all right

482
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,440
Yeah, so he was super with it. Yeah, I'm like

483
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,720
That was the first dude that I was ever like

484
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,480
Comfortable extending that kind of hand to you know

485
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,920
Sure and I I could just tell that he needed some so

486
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,920
I brought him back to my place. We smoked that cigarette and like

487
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:46,280
It was all pretty well then, you know, yeah, and I don't think we ever established like

488
00:34:47,240 --> 00:34:50,840
Like we gotta keep work and personal separate, you know, I

489
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,760
I think that was kind of like a just an unspoken rule. You know,

490
00:34:55,560 --> 00:35:00,680
Yeah, well whether whether Trevor do it at that point or not. He had he had seen it from you

491
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,400
You know, he he had learned that

492
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,240
Whether he adopted that prior to or not, you know,

493
00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:09,240
Yeah, no, but like no shit dude like

494
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:16,920
When when you came back to have you were drinking a lot dude with the guys. Yeah. Yeah. No, I was bad. It was it was every day

495
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,040
And that's what I was telling you Jason's I did a blc online

496
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,160
So I came back and it was COVID still so they I was in on

497
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:28,520
Came back quarantine for two weeks in my house and this was like I just kicked her out my house

498
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,520
So my friend just moved in

499
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:34,360
Yeah, I'm quarantined in my house with a friend who just came in and I was like

500
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,600
Yeah, I'm quarantined in my house with a friend who just came back. So he's quarantined too

501
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,400
So we're both drinking and then I get into blc

502
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,800
Which is online just show up just like this in front of the camera for a couple hours a day

503
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:51,400
And then that's it. So I mean I was drinking like literally every day because I was online

504
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,800
What the fuck would have been? Yeah. So yeah, what else are you gonna do? You know and the army

505
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,920
and the army like

506
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,280
I wouldn't even say like all the army, but the 160th

507
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:06,760
I will say does some of the worst like post deployment

508
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,640
reintegration

509
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,240
You know, they just see it as oh, they're they're over there less than six months

510
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,720
Like they're just gonna jump right back into it. Well

511
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,840
No, we still need to know how to cope with that stuff

512
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,600
Like I've just started here recently over the last I'd say

513
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,440
five or six years started, you know, really going to therapy and

514
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,640
and working through this stuff and figuring out ways

515
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:35,560
Because I've already been in so long. I've already hardwired my brain to have those reactions those

516
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,360
instances and

517
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,960
Now I'm starting to like cope with my first deployment, you know

518
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:49,080
Whereas back then I never really had that that chance, you know, so what made you start thinking about it more?

519
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:50,280
We just

520
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,680
You just couldn't take like the little thing like for me

521
00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:55,560
It was I was just getting upset over stupid shit

522
00:36:55,560 --> 00:37:00,680
And that that got under my skin enough to I was like, okay. What's what's really going on in my mind?

523
00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:03,400
Yeah, no

524
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,400
for me

525
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:10,600
You know covet covet was rough on everybody and not in the way of like, oh, I'm sick

526
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,200
It's like

527
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:16,600
No, I'm stuck in my house and I haven't seen anybody because they're putting

528
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,480
All these mandates and you know, like it was necessary. Don't get me wrong, but

529
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:26,840
It's just one of those things you're taking people and it was literally me and my husband

530
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,800
Like that was it. I was going into work very briefly

531
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,840
But still at that point I was seeing the same people and it put me into this like it changed it changed everybody

532
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,080
But it changed me in the fact that I was started to look at things differently

533
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,920
You know, I had all this free time to do the things that I love to do my hobbies

534
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:48,600
And so then when I started like putting, you know, we started going back to work more

535
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:56,440
It was almost a different shift in where I was like, well now I don't have the time to do the things that I love because I'm so inherently like

536
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,760
dedicated to this job

537
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:00,520
that

538
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:06,760
Maybe this isn't for me. Maybe maybe I've got to figure something else out and it put me in like this depressive state for a while

539
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,880
and you know, here recently I've

540
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,920
Saw medical help and it's helped out a lot and now we're at the point where

541
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,920
I'm gonna have I'm taking medication now, but you know, it's uh

542
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:25,880
You just got to work at it. You can't just think you can't just come home from a stressful environment like that

543
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,960
And think that you're just gonna just be able to go back to the way you were

544
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,200
You know those stressful environments like they rewire your brain to a point

545
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:40,200
Where that stuff's you know, uh, my therapist calls it residue like that stuff stays in your brain

546
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:44,600
And when you have those triggering moments that make you bring it like bring it back

547
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:50,200
It's because you haven't worked on it. You've just left it sitting there and it's stagnant and it's like

548
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:51,640
bad

549
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,800
So just riding your brain away

550
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,440
Yeah, so I just I just got to a point where I was like enough is enough, you know

551
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:07,080
And I gotta gotta go seek help and you know a lot of people there's their stigmas to that like you go into a therapist in the army and you tell them

552
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,080
I'm depressed

553
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,160
I can open up a can of worms and it can change a lot of things in your life

554
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,080
Yeah, the the only reason I was so willing to do is because I was getting med boarder

555
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,080
I was already done so it's like all right

556
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:24,440
Well, the only thing that could really happen is the therapist finds out like really who I am and then in

557
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,680
Couple months. I never talked to them again anyway, so let's at least figure some shit out

558
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,880
So that was really the only reason because the stigmas were so bad

559
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:37,080
Well, and people don't do it just with their mental health either they do it with their physical health in the army

560
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:47,080
You know they go for so long without saying oh my knee has been hurting for the last, you know, four years because of this bad jump that I had

561
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,080
You know

562
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:57,080
We say that and it's a stigma, you know and we do it to ourselves like we put so much emphasis on well if they're broken like we're just going to med board

563
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:05,080
Well, that's not necessarily the case, you know special operations is trying to start to turn around to it where they're starting to figure out that

564
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:11,080
You know people seeking help for this stuff isn't necessarily a career debilitating thing, you know, we can help them and

565
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:19,080
And find work for them to do, you know, we can we can take away that risk of suicide of just dropping them out of the army

566
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:23,080
And you know kind of just letting them be

567
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:29,080
So I'm a big advocate for it like go out and seek help

568
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:35,080
Yeah, I remember like when I was drinking real bad right I was like should I go to ASAP like I thought about that

569
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:41,080
And I'm like man if they take my ti stamp from that, you know, like that's just gonna be such a problem

570
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:53,080
What I tell you that one good thing though that came out of Trevor's whole situation is that you told a lot of people about going to therapy and like seeking out this resources bro

571
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:58,080
Yeah, because we we didn't even really know about a lot of them we do the chaplain you know that's about it

572
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:06,080
Yeah, I started going and the coolest thing was Frank so Frank knew everything about me he was the leader at the time and he was like fine

573
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:14,080
Just stay home figure your shit out everybody knew my situation I was not one of the people to separate my personal life from work

574
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:22,080
So I came into work and I let everyone know what was going on and especially because the two guys that were involved with it all worked right here

575
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:31,080
I could literally write fucking there so I'm gonna tell everybody let everybody know what's going on and I was the happy go lucky guy all the time for the three and a half years I was there

576
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:39,080
So they knew me as the guy walking around smiling when I was med board and I was staying at home figuring my shit out going to therapy all this

577
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:48,080
And one of the days I showed up in like like a sweatshirt sweatpants crocs walking the proper roader and they're like what are you doing here

578
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:58,080
So I go dude I got therapy in like 15 minutes yeah you look like a dude that should be going to therapy and now everybody everybody in there like I didn't give a shit I was like yeah dude I'm going to therapy

579
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:09,080
Fuck you guys I don't care so now everybody a proper roader thinks oh he's just going to therapy who cares and then I go into the engine shop and that's what I'm telling everybody to so it was just everybody knew that it was okay

580
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:22,080
Look I'm going this because of this this is to the extent of my issues so everybody knew what that that I was going and now with this everybody hopefully can see that it helped so maybe

581
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:31,080
Oh bullshit yeah after you started going though like at least five or six people came up to me and were telling me like they're gonna start doing the same thing it was crazy

582
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:41,080
And sometimes that's what it takes you know I'm a big I'm a big advocate for it now you know I've always told my friends like you know go talk to somebody like I've always thrown that out there but I've never

583
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:59,080
Never really dug into it as deep as I have now like myself personally and so you have to you have to tell people about that you have to make that personal approach and tell people yeah I'm seeking help and if you have these issues like this is what I'm going through

584
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:05,080
Like maybe you should you know it's helping me maybe you should go talk to somebody about it you know

585
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:19,080
Yeah that was one big thing I was trying to get like trying to like I guess teach people but like teach myself at the same time was like signs that you might have an issue but like you wouldn't necessarily associate it with a problem

586
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:29,080
Like like like having short term memory issues you know that could be a sign of PTSD but if you don't know that you wouldn't really associate the two

587
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:41,080
Yeah the biggest issue is everybody's got it that you're working with like we all went over as we all came back and like you said there's no there's no reintegration into society again it's just get back to work

588
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:55,080
On top of that is before the before deploying ever I know my first deployment I was waiting that whole year like oh I'm gonna deploy let's fucking go like this is gonna be awesome and then when we come back we're like dude that was so awesome but no one's like yeah

589
00:43:55,080 --> 00:44:03,080
Well in like six months you're gonna be waking up at 2am for no reason so just be ready for that I know it tells you that type of shit

590
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:19,080
Yeah and you only see the symptoms right you only see the stuff when guys come into work and they're angry or upset or you know jovial and smiling all the time or whatever whatever symptom they're showing you're only seeing that so if you have those same symptoms you're thinking

591
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:42,080
okay this is normal like it's normal for just for me to just suddenly be angry it's normal for me to you know have an emotional moment over nothing you know like over nothing that's normal for me and then you just think that it's something you're just gonna have to deal with when in all reality it's not like there are some things that are hard

592
00:44:42,080 --> 00:45:00,080
to get into that you probably have a little more trouble getting rid of but those little things like you can you can change that you can get help with it the fucked up part two is that it's probably something that everyone deals with it but like because we don't talk about it we think we're alone you know

593
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:24,080
Yeah well that's one thing I learned during covid you know a lot of the people that I worked with that were my really good friends you know we would have barbecues over here we would hang out you know and we were always doing something and then it got to a point where we were always hanging out and you know everybody is not so jovial all the time we started talking about stuff

594
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:50,080
when we started realizing that everybody's just as unhappy as I am about every little thing whether it's personal professional work or otherwise like everybody's dealing with the same stuff like man okay it's it's not just me like right now we all need to figure out how we get out of this you know we all need to whatever it takes get us out of this slump that we're in so

595
00:45:50,080 --> 00:46:00,080
yeah I think a lot of it too it's like there's times in life you know where you just have to kind of nut up and be vulnerable I guess with people

596
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:13,080
it's weird too because like I mean I get anxiety over doing it with people but like it's never been something bad you know like I've never told anyone like oh yeah I have anger issues or like loud noises fucking mess me up or whatever

597
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:22,080
and no one's ever been anything but like super supportive over that and they usually tell me oh yeah I have this a similar issue you know

598
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:41,080
yeah and then you then you start talking about it and that's honestly that's some of the best therapy you can have just gonna sit there shooting the shit you know I've had situations that I've gone back and talk to people that I was overseas with and they're like you know we'll just we'll just be recalling stuff that happened

599
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:59,080
you know shank probably one of the most notable ones we got murdered I mean it was one night it looked like streamers racing across the sky and in my head I remember everything vividly but then you start talking about it and it's like no actually like this happened then this happened you got that stuff all mixed around

600
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:08,080
you know what I mean you start talking about that stuff and process it a little bit more because there's things in those stressful situations that you don't see you know

601
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:26,080
how old were you on your first deployment Jason you were 19 okay yeah I think that's how old I was to 19 or 20 I was I was way younger than I should have been going over you know in that capacity so

602
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:30,080
according to CNN that's still a child so

603
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,080
bro

604
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:44,080
it's yeah the same can't really buy tobacco so yeah that was the fucked up part bro is like I get back from deployment I'm like I can't even have a drink right now like yeah seems kind of fucked up

605
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:58,080
you can drink in Germany on the way over there not when you get back to the states yeah at the Rob yeah my first my first deployment dude one dude that we work with told me the Rob was the hotel across the street from the airport that nice

606
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:14,080
it used to be though that used to be it so my first deployment we went overseas the Rob wasn't a thing we stayed in that hotel fuck the Rob was it was the Rob the Rob in like end of 2016

607
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:30,080
yeah because that's when this was yeah I think he was just fucking with me we were pretty different I think it was like 2013 2014 when they shifted that like they changed it but yeah we said we stayed in that hotel it was it was a luxury life there for a while

608
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:52,080
shit though you know what like low key help me during covid though is like flying in DJ right because a lot of the times we would go from DJ to somewhere else and it was always at night you know it's three hours over water one way and it's like you're 100 feet over the water like if something happens you're as good as gone you know

609
00:48:52,080 --> 00:49:02,080
and that kind of forced me to get comfortable with the idea that like okay if I die like it's completely out of my hands now it's my time it's my time you know

610
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:26,080
and it's like it's hard to explain that to people that haven't had to reconcile that I guess but yeah are you especially especially that young you know like you I mean I was getting murdered on my first deployment at that gym like you just kind of adapt to make it alright this is my new life and this is my new normal sort of deal

611
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:46,080
yeah and well so for you it might be even worse but for us cuz we were going over there when the action was slowing down so like if I was my first deployment I mean we got mortared we were sending out mortars all that shit but it was it's like I like it we talked down on it because it wasn't that big of a deal

612
00:49:46,080 --> 00:50:00,080
yeah we're just like we're just sending out mortars it's only like two miles out like it's not that big of a deal it's two miles away but because you come home and you got these people that go on these crazy trips and they're like God that's nothing bro I went and did this so now you think it's no big deal

613
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:26,080
exactly and that's what I was gonna say you like the senior guys that have been there for a while they talk about their deployments and they're like oh yeah we had this happen and this happen and it was crazy and you know there was one day where this happened and then so you get over there and you're like oh man two mortars like that's no big deal compared to what these guys had to deal with you know when in all reality it is still a big deal you know even though small little things that happen are big deals so

614
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:48,080
yeah I remember on my first deployment like nothing happened right really with that and then on my second one we were coming back from this forward base and we took a different route than the first battalion did but first battalion ended up getting a pilot shot and like they had to land and like replace them with the MTP and fly back but we took a different route to get a fuel tank or some shit right

615
00:50:48,080 --> 00:51:17,080
and I'm like bro this is some real shit man like that was the first time I'd ever heard anyone taking fire you know and getting shot bro I'm like what the fuck are we doing here man yeah yeah it was just ins I'm like that could have been us bro she looks a lot bigger than a black Hawk like yeah I mean I remember my first first deployment I think one of the things that stuck with me the worst was you know one of the we had had a Air Force weatherman or weather girl and I'm like

616
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:46,080
I think one of the dog handlers got shot and killed over there and they immediately I mean you guys know how it is I'm sure you've seen it like they immediately have a ceremony for him and that was like humbling and scary and like so many mixed emotions all at the same time yeah it's like on the one hand like yeah you kind of have to like be sad and more or whatever but like you still have a job to do so you kind of just put that on the back burner yeah and you get angry

617
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:55,080
you know yeah you get pissed off bro are you are you spiritual or religious at all Jason

618
00:51:55,080 --> 00:52:23,080
I mean I believe in a higher power I don't necessarily follow any strict guidelines as far as what that might be you know I've seen and done a lot of things in my life to kind of constitute that belief in myself my you know religion growing up was a big deal for me and my father recently just got himself out of cult situation

619
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:52,080
so religion for me is kind of finicky yeah so a cult yeah he was so he had cancer and it was pretty serious it wasn't quite terminal but it was on the fence he had a kidney stomach had to get part of his bowel retracted or resected all that stuff so it was pretty serious deal and at that time I was driving back and forth from Campbell down there I mean I was down there

620
00:52:52,080 --> 00:53:08,080
I mean I was taking leave and you know going down there and helping with their appointments because my mom my step mom also has a mess well during this time you know death brings on weird things and people and my dad and my step mom really fell into religion really hard

621
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:23,080
I don't think religion is a bad thing I think it's great I think it brings people together it ever since a community and you know structurally like the guidelines that it puts in place they're good you know

622
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:43,080
they fell into it a little harder than they should have and then fast forward a couple years they move out to South Dakota my husband and I get married they want nothing to do with us so it's it's slowly evolved back into where we have a relationship but it's taken a few years and it's definitely changed over those few years

623
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:57,080
but that's kind of why I have that sense about religion is like I just don't really hold myself to any bounds I guess with it you know I just try to be a good person that's really good the end of it you know

624
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:18,080
yeah I kind of became a lot more religious during COVID when I was stuck in Afghanistan like one dude he was doing like a Bible study and I'm like I guess I'll go like I didn't have anything else to do like the gyms are closed right and he was like talking and like going over this stuff and I was like well this makes sense like this seems like some cool stuff you know

625
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:28,080
and like that kind of made me more religious and then when I got back and Trevor she was popping off I was like man this is I knew it was something that could help him you know

626
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:36,080
yeah but I hated the people that would like try to compel you to believe a certain thing

627
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:51,080
yeah like they they impress it on you they they make it like it's either this or nothing and it's like oh that's not the case like I can be who I am and you can be who you are and we can have a relationship and there doesn't have to be anything we can disagree on stuff

628
00:54:51,080 --> 00:55:05,080
yeah Kevin did it really well he did it very subtly so he knew that I wasn't religious and like really at all already and I don't know if he meant to do it or not but it would be just like jokes like I come in in the morning

629
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:21,080
say something happened and it would just be that's the good Lord watching there's some some dumb shit and after enough jokes and enough stupid shit I was like dude he's on something it's like it's the good Lord's day

630
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:40,080
or we'd be going home early on the Friday so good Lord wants us home early don't they like dude what are you talking about are you like what the hell's going on and then just enough enough of that where I was finally convinced when I ran into a situation I was like hmm maybe the good Lord's watching

631
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:48,080
yeah and then you start you start bringing that in your own life yeah exactly that's all you need yeah yeah I was trying to he slipped you the Kool-Aid

632
00:55:48,080 --> 00:56:01,080
yeah I mean bro I was I was trying to tread lightly man but I it wasn't like a denominational thing I wouldn't like I wasn't trying to push you to be like a Catholic or like an Orthodox or anything it was just like get you to kind of believe in God

633
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:12,080
maybe whatever happens right yeah but I just wanted to tread like extremely lightly like if I had sort of joke like that you're like that's fucking weird came like stop doing that I would have just stopped completely you know

634
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:23,080
but like I mean I'm a pretty joking guy like you know it's pretty easy for me and then like like I know I know your jokes yeah yeah yeah I'll know my jokes bro

635
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:34,080
and then maybe like somewhere you could I guess contributed to a coincidence yeah and I'd be like is that really a coincidence I don't know it seems pretty coincidental

636
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:44,080
as it helped you in your life I mean oh easily man one thing I have noticed is that it makes me a lot more appreciative and just grateful for everything

637
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:54,080
yeah like like before but yeah before like when I was growing up and I was a teenager you know up until I was like 22 really I was like a devout atheist let's say

638
00:56:54,080 --> 00:57:05,080
like I was anti-religious like I thought there's a you know I can't look up and see God in the sky you know none of this shit makes any sense like the Bible is all old and all this stuff right

639
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:15,080
and then I got older and some life experience and I was like you know this seems like a lot of coincidental shit to just be kind of made up right

640
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:29,080
yeah and then I'm thinking too like if I'm not here for a reason and this is all just coincidental really my life doesn't mean anything it's it's it has no significance because there's no there's nothing precious about it like

641
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:42,080
I don't really have a soul I'm just a semi-conscious bag of meat you know yeah and it's humans it's humans we kind of need that you know we need to know that there's something else afterwards

642
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:53,080
that's kind of like that reassurance that self-assurance that we get that this is not all just pointless I mean it's not when you think about it even if you take the religious aspect out of it like

643
00:57:53,080 --> 00:58:07,080
you know what we do in our life is going to impact something somewhere you know even even small stuff so sorry my dogs are barking but even the small stuff it has meaning to it so

644
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:18,080
yeah it helped me forgive a lot of shit too there's like a lot of shit where I guess I could hate myself for you know what I did or like what other people had done to me but

645
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:31,080
I'm a really like forgiving guy now like I don't think most people are malicious in their intentions like Trevor let's say he was not a he was not mouthing off to me because he genuinely was a hateful individual who just wanted to see me suffer

646
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:41,080
like he grew up in a rough neighborhood yeah and it had nothing to do with you either probably that's just how he is and how he talks to people it would have been anyone in that situation like I could even given a

647
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:52,080
lip-fold any NCO in there you know and I'm like this is not a hateful individual but I would still come home a lot of the times and tell my wife like man Trevor pissed me off so bad today this is all the dumb shit he did you know

648
00:58:52,080 --> 00:59:09,080
I would do the same thing with Kyle I mean it was yeah it was a struggle yeah I mean I talked to really good friends back in that time like invented to them about it and got advice from them on how to really deal with it but yeah it was it was rough

649
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:28,080
yeah I could tell Trevor had a good heart you know that that really helped me kind of stick with you I guess on a Kyle it's kind of it's weird for me to because I was only I guess 19 maybe 20 you know the whole time I knew Kyle so like I really couldn't take that like objective

650
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:47,080
like this is what this dude is you know I think that's that's that's what helped me a lot with just believing in a higher power like taking it as objective like the shit my mom does or shit my dad does it's not it's never going to be to harm me but I know they're they're here on the earth

651
00:59:47,080 --> 01:00:03,080
same time I am they love me to death they're trying to do what's best for me and they're doing it the only way not maybe not the only way but the best way they see fit so if it's if it's going to piss me off that's because it's not the best way I see fit you know like it's just that's something

652
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:19,080
they're doing like there's there's nothing I can't I can't control I can't do anything about it they're doing something nice in their mind it's time for me to sit back and think maybe why do why do they think it's nice why do I think it's not nice shit like that like it's got me to analyze it a lot more

653
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:35,080
yeah and it's all how you perceive it to you know when you when you start shifting the perspective on things that happen you know with your parents or anybody really like it could make you realize that that's not necessarily the case and change it it'll change you over it you know

654
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:58,080
yeah so it took it took me a lot to realize like my dad and the way our relationship is gone is like that's that's him in his life and I can't you know I can't hold that against him like he's doing what he thinks is best in his life and that sucks that those years are gone now but you know maybe the future holds something different

655
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:14,080
is it when you came out that he just didn't want anything to do with you know at first he was real supportive of it him and my stepmom they you know called my husband their other son and then as the religious got got to become more of an influence it started

656
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:34,080
shifting it towards we don't believe this is right anymore but we're still gonna love you and then it shifted to we are we don't really want to have anything to associate with it you know so then the conversations we we'd call and talk to each other and it would just be like wave wave tops I'm not really talking about my life I'm

657
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:54,080
not really you know telling you what's really going on because I have to leave that part of my life out so for me part of your life to you know yeah and for me it was like alright I gotta I gotta kind of cut ties and let it let it lay for a little while and it's it's slowly grown back into it into a good relationship and I think you know I'm

658
01:01:54,080 --> 01:02:16,080
hopeful for the future on it so were you in during don't ask don't tell I was yeah when did that end like 2011 on a song no I think I wasn't repealed I'd have to go back and look but it was I was in for a couple of years before they repealed her appeal that so

659
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:38,080
but but you still kind of I don't say kept it hidden but like didn't tell people after that right like I didn't I didn't know you're gay no I and that's that personal and professional yeah I grew up in that time and don't ask don't tell one but also you know that's still something that people can have an objective look on and not that it won't

660
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:51,080
necessarily go in your favor you know they won't really look at you as a person and take you in for your look at the career you are built just immediately put that as number one and you know right yeah

661
01:02:51,080 --> 01:03:04,080
off the table so they couldn't say yeah yeah you know I mean I've worked with really religious people in the past and you know there's been little issues but eventually we're going out to a point where we have a good working

662
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:16,080
relationship and in all reality that's all we need you know I don't need to be friends with you on the weekends but we still have to have a good working relationship and if that's not there you know it can it can degrade real quick so

663
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:36,080
yeah when I when I found out Miguel is the one who told me right I was like that doesn't make it like I it was kind of weird right because like you in my mind right I'm thinking like a gay person it's got like you know like all the gay people I knew were from Colorado very gay like

664
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:52,080
I had a voice and all the like rainbow flags everywhere you know like Jason what that's that's crazy like I never would have guessed I can't see him wearing a rainbow flag never would have guessed in a thousand years right and then I'm thinking I wonder if he kept it hidden because of Kyle

665
01:03:52,080 --> 01:04:08,080
because Kyle may he would have said some shit to you if you knew no it wasn't really that it was because I mean Miguel and I were really close friends when I was there right we still are we still talk on occasion but you know how that is when you have space between

666
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:26,080
you know we have space between you sometimes things don't stay as connected you know but he was the first person I ever told so he knew well before anybody else did and then I didn't like really not give a shit until I got to where I'm at now and got settled for

667
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:52,080
I don't know what I'll say because you know I had to kind of interview for this job now and well I didn't want to disclose that initially because I felt like maybe they would have taken that into their decision so yeah I was going to say it's kind of interesting Miguel is the first one to know Miguel is like my dude when everything hit the fan I slept at his house for a couple days when I when she was sleeping at my house I had nowhere to stay so it's kind of

668
01:04:52,080 --> 01:05:12,080
but Miguel was there for the both shout out to Miguel bro that a solid dude bro yeah just trying to do good in the world that's a good dude yeah yeah well and him and him and I were always I don't know real close you know because we kind of he was already an E4 and he was way older

669
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:40,080
but he was also I don't know a little immature I guess in a sense and we kind of had we related a little bit in that sense and so we grew close and he was going through a tough time about the same time all that stuff was changing in my life and you know so I just kind of told him one day we were going to get coffee and it was the same reaction you just had like what are you talking about

670
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:58,080
yeah yeah like I was shook dude is that like so that's the biggest thing for for gay individuals is coming out was that like scary in the car or did you just say it you know what I'm saying like did you look Miguel you know where that probably played over in your head quite a bit

671
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:24,080
I think I had already yeah I mean because there were instances beforehand that I'd like wanted to say something but we had just never had that like sharing of things in our life that were that monumental you know what I mean he was going through a pretty rough time and it just seemed like okay this is the right time because he just told me something and I'm going to tell him something and at that point we have to keep it secret you know like it's

672
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:48,080
yeah you're locked in bro yeah and and so it was kind of a it was it was like what sold our friendship together in a sense you know and I've had you know the next person was drew tech supply guy him and I had a couple real rough deployments together and that just kind of you know it was easy for me to do because I'd already had that relationship with him that

673
01:06:48,080 --> 01:07:03,080
when I came out to my family initially that was a little different because that's you know that's your family and their their perspective on it can it can be hard to deal with you know

674
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:21,080
yeah now I remember when my sister was telling me how her spouse was transitioning become a man right like initially I was like that's kind of like bizarre you know like that was the first trans person I ever knew and

675
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:34,080
like of course I was afraid of like dead naming them you know and you know him getting all pissed off in me but like he was super chill about it you know like we talked about it you know like I talked to my sister about it and

676
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:45,080
it was like surprisingly simple I wish I was shook though bro and he started taking testosterone one year like I came home for Christmas and he opens the door and is like so bro and he's got like a beard and all this shit

677
01:07:45,080 --> 01:08:02,080
totally changed yeah what the yeah yeah she she's she texted me like a few months ago though like thanking me because she knows I'm a religious guy you know I'm fairly right wing on some things but my my guiding principle I guess is just not to be a dick when you don't need to be

678
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:23,080
yeah I mean you just you don't have to be that way like you you're not you're not in that situation you know and at the end of the day they're human beings so why would you not be nice to him you know I mean I don't get necessarily like all bent out of shape with a lot of it

679
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:39,080
you know I've grown up in a in the special operations community and we're inherently known for harassing each other to know and about everything you know so it

680
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:49,080
there's going to be jokes there's going to be stuff that people say and you know you just got to kind of let it roll off your back and you got to be accepting of their views just as much as they're being accepting yours.

681
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:54,080
Yeah that's that was like my biggest thing is when I started having my mental health issues.

682
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:59,080
I was like I wouldn't want someone to downplay my shit.

683
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:07,080
When I come and tell you about my thing and you you're my suicide attempt whatever it is and you just downplay it.

684
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:18,080
That's just like the ultimate betrayal so I don't want someone to come to me open up to me and then me seem like they think I'm a dick for whatever my reaction was.

685
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:26,080
And I was thinking about this earlier because I asked Kevin a couple times if we could talk about this with you because I've never met you before I didn't know what was happening.

686
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:36,080
But then earlier today I was thinking why why wouldn't he want to talk about it too because there's only one way for me to find out because I don't think that way.

687
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:39,080
I don't that's not how my brain is wired.

688
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:50,080
The only way for me to really know what you're going through is if you tell me and now and now we're in a society where you can't even tell me anymore because there's there's so many bullies or whatever it is.

689
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:52,080
Both on both ends of the spectrum.

690
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:54,080
It's just there's no discourse anymore.

691
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:55,080
I can't ask questions.

692
01:09:55,080 --> 01:10:01,080
I just want to know I want to know what's going on because this is such a big thing in today's society.

693
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:10,080
If I don't know what's going on I'm just left in the dust and I'm just want to know is ignorant people that can't that no one can come and talk to about it.

694
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:11,080
Exactly.

695
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:17,080
And as advocates for anything you have to be willing to have those conversations even with people that you disagree with.

696
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:25,080
You know when when my dad you know fell into the religion and that started my lifestyle started becoming an issue.

697
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:30,080
You know that was that was where I was at with it but he wasn't.

698
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:35,080
You know he wasn't willing to like teach me what he believed.

699
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:41,080
And so it just kind of like shut the conversation down it wasn't it wasn't didn't bring any prosper.

700
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:43,080
You know it was like a bad.

701
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:44,080
Yeah it was like a bad faith.

702
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:46,080
He wasn't genuinely trying to understand you.

703
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:48,080
I don't I mean Lisa the sound.

704
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:54,080
No he wasn't and and that was that's going to shut anything down like no.

705
01:10:54,080 --> 01:11:03,080
I don't want to talk to you about it anymore you know so you have to be open minded to those things like I'm not trans I don't necessarily really understand it because I've never lived it.

706
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:20,080
You know I've never I've never put myself in your shoes or been in your shoes and I can try but unless I have that conversation with you like I'll never know and I'll never be able to relate to you and I'll never be able to put myself in your shoes and actually understand.

707
01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:25,080
That's the biggest problem is the relatability.

708
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:39,080
I mean my dad always says this the easiest way to talk to someone is just one thing you all relate on but you know it's becoming a big I mean it is a big part of your life being gay lesbian trans whatever it is it's such a big part of your life and if you can't talk about it.

709
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:49,080
You're going to have to fill this conversation up with something else you know we're going to have to relate and wouldn't and what do you do at that point you know it's because it's going to be a big part of your life.

710
01:11:49,080 --> 01:12:02,080
It's because it's going to be it's going to be weird for both of us at that point in the conversation like we're both going to kind of shut down and then you're never going to find that that common ground.

711
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:03,080
Right.

712
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:17,080
Yeah, I think it's just people labeling other people as like the others, you know, yeah, like straights versus gains or blacks and whites it's like, I don't think we should label other people as like the other group.

713
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:22,080
Well, it also doesn't define you as a person.

714
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:36,080
Yeah, you know, like you being straight isn't defining you as a person and me being gay isn't defining defining me as a person and sorry to assume your sexual orientation but.

715
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:49,080
Yeah, you know it's just one of those things like we have to talk about it we have to we have to educate each other we have to be advocates for whatever we believe in, and you have to be approachable about it.

716
01:12:49,080 --> 01:13:04,080
It was one thing I kind of struggled with because like in Colorado people are very gay, like, they a lot of them do make it like the kind of the center of their personality you know, but like I didn't meet like a gay dude that wasn't.

717
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:09,080
That wasn't all he would ever talk about until I was 2223 you know.

718
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:22,080
Well, and that's one of those things to, you know, you talk to different people and it doesn't matter if it's sexual orientation or their hobby, like whatever their life is about, and if that's the only thing they have that's what they're going to make it.

719
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:31,080
You know, so if that's what they have in their life and that's the biggest thing in their life, like, they're going to run wild with it.

720
01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:38,080
So, you know, I just don't I don't impress it on people like I don't go into anything impressing me.

721
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:43,080
I would have a sexual orientation with anybody I don't hide anything anymore.

722
01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:56,080
I don't gloss over it like if somebody asked me if I'm married like yeah, have a husband, you know, or even if they asked me, Oh, what's your wife's name and I say Jacob like, you know, we all have a little awkward giggle about it but I don't make it a big deal.

723
01:13:56,080 --> 01:13:58,080
It's because it's not an all reality.

724
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:04,080
Yeah, it's not a big like it's just something that you are it's like no more than you know, no more than me being straight.

725
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:17,080
Yeah, it's almost like like a feeler for if you want to talk to the person like you could almost yeah, you could just run up to a stranger and if you just tell him that you could offer their reaction like, you know, I could stop talking to you.

726
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:20,080
And I'll be perfectly fine.

727
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:40,080
You immediately know whether the conversation is going to go anywhere or not. Yeah, it's like because they you can see it in their face they're like, immediately shut down or get this like, wide eyed look on their face like, oh man and it's like, and once I smile and like kind of laugh about it then you see their unless they're not okay with it you know but like the ones that say something

728
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:56,080
like when they when she laughing smile they they kind of brings the wall down and then it almost kind of I don't know offers you more to talk about a little bit because you just both laughed at something funny that you just said you know like or that's not not like I said not

729
01:14:56,080 --> 01:15:07,080
something I know about like of course I'm gonna laugh my ass off at that because if you're making a joke about it I can't make jokes about it. I can't because I don't know and that's what I do every day is I just fuck around make jokes about it.

730
01:15:07,080 --> 01:15:18,080
I'm gonna love that shit because I can't make jokes you know. I mean I laugh at some of some of the worst day jokes you know like they're funny to me too. It's not a big deal.

731
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:34,080
You know, there's certain lines you don't cross. Right. Obviously, you know, like, for me like is a trigger word like I've had people say that to me and not so great environments under the wrong terms and it's, you know, I'll say something to you at that point.

732
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:47,080
You know, but if you just use it in a joke like it's not the same it doesn't hold the same context, you know, right. Yeah, that's that's a lot of these kind of triggering words you know like depends on how you're going about it, you know.

733
01:15:47,080 --> 01:16:02,080
Yeah, and, and we shouldn't hold so much to it like that all reality at the end of the day it's just a word, you know it's the, the thought and the influence of the meeting that you put behind it that really makes it what it is, you know, right.

734
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:05,080
Or we had on time or at 116.

735
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:08,080
Oh, nice.

736
01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:09,080
Bro. Yeah.

737
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:11,080
Yeah, you ready to wrap it up.

738
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:15,080
Hell yeah. Because I really got to go to the bathroom.

739
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:20,080
Yeah, I appreciate you coming on man. Definitely. Yeah.

740
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:25,080
Yeah, no, y'all definitely have to come out again. That was awesome. I appreciate it a lot.

741
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:33,080
Well, I'm currently we're you know getting everything started for a PCS to Hawaii in October so

742
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:35,080
Oh yeah.

743
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:47,080
You know, hopefully, hopefully we can get a video in before them because I'd love to talk to you guys about anything you want to enjoy it but maybe the next time I'm on here it'll be with the ocean in the background.

744
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:55,080
Yeah, no, yeah, definitely got to get you on again man. Appreciate it.

745
01:16:55,080 --> 01:17:18,080
Yeah, later dudes. Peace.